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Donator — She/Her Posted 5 years ago ( 2019/05/1 17:13:14 )

"This topic talks about the toxicity of debating online with people who are not actual trolls, but psychotic people who can't think beyond their opinion. Please share your stories.

After discussion Suicide with someone and explaining my suicide experience, the person I was debating with called me pro suicide because I don't believe a Netflix TV show is the issue to suicide problem. That I believe we need to focus on better mental health and working on helping people from bullying as well. After I stated that, he also stated that when I die I would not be missed because he thought my "support" for the show was disgusting and I was pro suicide. The fact he stated that after stating he hates pro suicide proves how crazy people have become to prove their point. Looking at the profile on Facebook, I come to realize nothing I would say would not make him calm down. When I brought up in my case it was a song that I listen to that made me contemplate, he didn't care. It was the fact I had no negative view of the Netflix show that was concerning to him. He didn't care if I said anything can be a trigger, he didn't care that I went through it, all he cared about was his view. After I pointed out his hypocrisy by calling me names and saying no one loves me if I die, he deleted it and blocked me. He ended posting his comment again and I looked on another account.


This mentality online is why I can't a civil conversation. No, he was not a troll but someone who is suicidal and depressed. His opinion was someone who can't think rationally and because he personally didn't like the show, he automatically assumed anyone who defended it or did like it was pro suicide. I watched it once, wasn't a fan but used it to talk about suicide in groups and help people. No, the debated wasn't from a group but an article on the Daily Dot. It was about the NetFlix show maybe influencing people to commit suicide, but there was not fact on it, just speculation.

This mentality online is really becoming Toxic. You can't have civil conversations any more.

Whats everyone's thoughts and stories?"

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Donator — She/Her Posted 5 years ago ( 2019/05/1 17:30:20 )

"@SirLionelNigelConrad: I really thought I could help him cause it did come off as if he suffered and I gave him help groups etc.... He was just so fixated on me not being anti NetFlix show, that he didn't care what else I have to say. "

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Donator — She/Her Posted 5 years ago ( 2019/05/1 18:52:56 )
Millet, spilling the tea:


Debating is equally my favorite thing in the world and my most annoying hobby.
Because the line that treads what is a debate and what is just a noisy back and forth seems to always inevitably get blurred.

Screaming and dominating over opinions is far from a discussion and it doesn't help the other party understand the view any clearer.
A real discussive and fruitful debate needs to be a give and take conversation of present, listen and counter without getting personal
against the other view and defaulting to large jumps and accusations- as well as not taking simple statements personally when they clearly aren't.

It often is one way or the other, either one party flings to insults and accusations. Or one party takes a simple statement and acts as if their core identity is under attack. Worse, even I feel like the latter is quite enabled now a days.

We can't make cultural progress and movements successful without discussion. Yelling at the opposing side "UR WRONG" doesn't open minds- granted some people will never open their minds period, but striving to be the party with intellectual integrity is of course ideal. I really can't even count how many times presenting a counter argument- politely and calmly resulted in someone becoming hyper offended and trying to shut it down because they were too sensitive to handle the discussion they started. It completely prevented progress and understanding and does their side absolutely zero justice.

It's rare to have a solid back and forth of opposing views and have it be mutually fruitful. I have fun arguing and so long as the other side is on the same vibe, I'll debate literally anything.
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Voltie — they or he Posted 5 years ago ( 2019/05/1 21:16:51 )
trying to have a civil conversation about the emotionally charged nature of suicide is nigh impossible in person, let alone online, especially when the person you're trying to engage in a debate with is someone who is suicidal and depressed - by your own claims. how can you reasonably expect an unbiased and civil discussion when the person you're engaging is living dealing with suicide and depression?

debating, like any skill, is one that needs to be honed and practiced over time. there's a reason most if not all official debates take place with a mediator between both parties to keep people on topic and to enforce the guidelines of the debate. most people will never bother to learn and expecting internet randos to approach situations as though they have is folly in itself, tbh. what i'm saying is i don't think some war in the comment section of facebook is the best place to expect a 'civil discussion' over a touchy subject like of the consumption of media and the effects it may have over the mentally ill.

if you don't post screencaps from the conversation, i can't form an unbiased opinion. i do have to say it's bad form to antagonize a mentally ill person then, when you're blocked & unable to contact him anymore, to go to a different site and talk about how he's 'psychotic, suicidal and depressed'. i'm in no way defending the things he's said because they're wrong in any context, but i have to arch a brow at concept the thread seems to push: check out this mentally ill psychopath who didn't agree with me, what a nutjob, am i right?!

additionally, judging by your recount of the situation, the point of the conversation was that 'i think this show has pro-suicidal messages and you are a bad person for supporting it', then what does it matter if you listened to a song? why are you bringing up outside triggers that may promote suicidal urges? you're moving the goalposts yourself - you did not address his point, his point was 'the show has pro-suicidal messages and you are a bad person for supporting it' . the existence of triggers outside the show does not negate his proposition that the show itself has a pro-suicidal message. if you can't debate within the context, then you have already lost the debate you claimed to engage in.

this is a smaller note, but you mentioned your intention was to 'help' him. it's not your responsibility to 'help' others. you trying to 'help', from someone else's perspective, is you massively overstepping your boundaries with a situation you can't possibly think to aid unless you're also his counselor. him not accepting your brand of help doesn't make him worse for it, either.

for future reference, it's probably best to not engage someone when their opening gambit is 'you're pro suicide and nobody will miss you when you're gone'.
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Donator — They/Them Posted 5 years ago ( 2019/05/2 07:56:46 )
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Some people just want a personal echo chamber no matter what. Others are deliberate trolls. Others still just want to shout from the rooftops that they are right, and if you don't agree you're just un-educated. I refuse to debate with anyone I don't know well enough, simply because things can escalate very quickly. When I do, I try to sit down and put together an argument instead of just going with it. It helps to understand WHAT I feel, before I tell others my opinions. That way I can put my logic together well and not have a bunch of things slapped on the side as an afterthought. It also helps to argue the other side-- to play devil's advocate-- before I do that kind of thing. Instead of just pushing my viewpoint, how do others feel? Why might that be the case? What facts/evidence is there to support both sides? So on and so forth. In cases where I struggle to understand, I ask someone who has a conflicting viewpoint. They can usually help me understand things I hadn't realized or thought about before. In that case, it's less of a debate and more of me learning about the "opposing" side.


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